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	<title>Comments for Yellow Pages Environmental Forum</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Information about recycling and environmental efforts in the yellow pages industry</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by KenC</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>KenC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Mennin:

As I have repeatedly said -- if people contact the publishers, all of them I have talked to have said they will allow people to opt-out.  But they are going to be less receptive to requests that come in from a third party.

Given that they deliver in some big markets millions of books, I have no doubt there could be issues on initial implementation.  

My comments on computers vs. the print book is hardly a stretch.  I love to hear all of these comments from supposed eco-oriented people who decry the  arrival of a directory when the electrical power alone that all of their computers, cell phones, and other wired gadgets has resulted in significant increases in power consumption in the US.  And yet they also protest building more power plants no matter what the fuel source is.  

We can also debate it all day, but a print source is quicker than doing a search.  For more see this recent blog posting:  http://askmeaboutyp.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/the-future-of-print-yellow-pages-in-a-digitalonline-world/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mennin:</p>
<p>As I have repeatedly said &#8212; if people contact the publishers, all of them I have talked to have said they will allow people to opt-out.  But they are going to be less receptive to requests that come in from a third party.</p>
<p>Given that they deliver in some big markets millions of books, I have no doubt there could be issues on initial implementation.  </p>
<p>My comments on computers vs. the print book is hardly a stretch.  I love to hear all of these comments from supposed eco-oriented people who decry the  arrival of a directory when the electrical power alone that all of their computers, cell phones, and other wired gadgets has resulted in significant increases in power consumption in the US.  And yet they also protest building more power plants no matter what the fuel source is.  </p>
<p>We can also debate it all day, but a print source is quicker than doing a search.  For more see this recent blog posting:  <a href="http://askmeaboutyp.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/the-future-of-print-yellow-pages-in-a-digitalonline-world/" rel="nofollow">http://askmeaboutyp.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/the-future-of-print-yellow-pages-in-a-digitalonline-world/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by Mennin Leah</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Mennin Leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I happen to be one of those third parties and I have no problems having my clients names removed from the lists.  I have talked to all of the major companies and for the most part they are very professional, courteous and knowledgeable.  There is never a problem getting off the list, the problem is you get a book delivered anyway, just got mine this week and I have been off the list for the last 6 months. 

I think there is a great value in the paper phone books and I have no problem with them being delivered, I just think the opt-out request should be more effective.  If you do not want the book you just should not get one.

I think the argument on the computers vs the paper phone book is a stretch.  Most people have a computer for 100's of  different reasons and looking up a number is just a benefit not the sole purpose.  People would have a computer regardless if they can look up a number or not.  The paper phone books sole purpose is the data inside.  There is no other use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I happen to be one of those third parties and I have no problems having my clients names removed from the lists.  I have talked to all of the major companies and for the most part they are very professional, courteous and knowledgeable.  There is never a problem getting off the list, the problem is you get a book delivered anyway, just got mine this week and I have been off the list for the last 6 months. </p>
<p>I think there is a great value in the paper phone books and I have no problem with them being delivered, I just think the opt-out request should be more effective.  If you do not want the book you just should not get one.</p>
<p>I think the argument on the computers vs the paper phone book is a stretch.  Most people have a computer for 100&#8217;s of  different reasons and looking up a number is just a benefit not the sole purpose.  People would have a computer regardless if they can look up a number or not.  The paper phone books sole purpose is the data inside.  There is no other use.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by KenC</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>KenC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Liz:

Would you allow an unapproved third party to contact your cell phone provider and disconnect your line on your behalf??   Why not allow someone other than your Internet service provider to accept  requests to opt-out of your online service??   Probably not.  There's too much room for shenanigans in these cases.

That's why some publishers may choose to not accept third party opt out requests.  Most all of them I have talked to said that if you contact them directly, they will honor your request, but they will want some information to verify you are who you say you are.  

Next time one of those "many" directories arrives, why not take a minute look inside before you recycle it.  I think you will find a bunch of very usefull things inside....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liz:</p>
<p>Would you allow an unapproved third party to contact your cell phone provider and disconnect your line on your behalf??   Why not allow someone other than your Internet service provider to accept  requests to opt-out of your online service??   Probably not.  There&#8217;s too much room for shenanigans in these cases.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why some publishers may choose to not accept third party opt out requests.  Most all of them I have talked to said that if you contact them directly, they will honor your request, but they will want some information to verify you are who you say you are.  </p>
<p>Next time one of those &#8220;many&#8221; directories arrives, why not take a minute look inside before you recycle it.  I think you will find a bunch of very usefull things inside&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by Liz</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Ken,
I've irritated and offended that your industry would not honor third-party requests to stop the flow of unwanted yellow pages to my home.  Why would you WANT to send a book to someone who had indicated, even to a third party, that he or she did not want to receive it?  Yellow pages at my house (and there are MANY) go straight out of the bag (another waste) into the recycle bin, unopened.  Tell me the logic in that.  Print may be fine for my neighbor, but not for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,<br />
I&#8217;ve irritated and offended that your industry would not honor third-party requests to stop the flow of unwanted yellow pages to my home.  Why would you WANT to send a book to someone who had indicated, even to a third party, that he or she did not want to receive it?  Yellow pages at my house (and there are MANY) go straight out of the bag (another waste) into the recycle bin, unopened.  Tell me the logic in that.  Print may be fine for my neighbor, but not for me.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by KenC</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>KenC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Ed:

Your comments don't make really make sense.  Advertisers do know that the print yellow pages make their phone ring with business.  That's why they buy the ads.  Not everyone is going to need their services.  Not everyone will use just a print Yellow Pages,  But the ROI that advertisers want, demand, and get is based on the results they do get.  And print Yellow Pages delivers that.

Because a few of you choose not get or use books isn't relevant.  Most likely they will also advertise online, or on billboards, or in newspapers.  but they will get their message to you one way or the other.

it's what keeps their business moving ahead and growing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed:</p>
<p>Your comments don&#8217;t make really make sense.  Advertisers do know that the print yellow pages make their phone ring with business.  That&#8217;s why they buy the ads.  Not everyone is going to need their services.  Not everyone will use just a print Yellow Pages,  But the ROI that advertisers want, demand, and get is based on the results they do get.  And print Yellow Pages delivers that.</p>
<p>Because a few of you choose not get or use books isn&#8217;t relevant.  Most likely they will also advertise online, or on billboards, or in newspapers.  but they will get their message to you one way or the other.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s what keeps their business moving ahead and growing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by Ed Kohler</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kohler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-213</guid>
		<description>Ken, advertisers don't know who they're not reaching since phone books are delivered to people who don't want them. That's the problem. Advertisers would see a bigger bang for their buck if they were only paying for the printing and distribution of phone books to people who find them valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, advertisers don&#8217;t know who they&#8217;re not reaching since phone books are delivered to people who don&#8217;t want them. That&#8217;s the problem. Advertisers would see a bigger bang for their buck if they were only paying for the printing and distribution of phone books to people who find them valuable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by KenC</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>KenC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-197</guid>
		<description>You missed the point on my comments to Tom:  How do advertisers know they will not reach him, and even more important, how does he know the book won't be needed??  

Yellow Pages is an episode based information source.  You don't read the Yellow Pages, you don't surf them, you go to them when a need arises.  The book is totally portable, doesn't require ongoing electricity, doesn't spoil after a week, requires no special connections -- it is an all in one source that can be useful in all kinds of situations and emergencies.

That's why he should still have a book...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You missed the point on my comments to Tom:  How do advertisers know they will not reach him, and even more important, how does he know the book won&#8217;t be needed??  </p>
<p>Yellow Pages is an episode based information source.  You don&#8217;t read the Yellow Pages, you don&#8217;t surf them, you go to them when a need arises.  The book is totally portable, doesn&#8217;t require ongoing electricity, doesn&#8217;t spoil after a week, requires no special connections &#8212; it is an all in one source that can be useful in all kinds of situations and emergencies.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why he should still have a book&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by Ed Kohler</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kohler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-195</guid>
		<description>Ken, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about whether 15% is a large percentage or not. If a typical CEO could save 15% of their manufacturing and shipping costs by not shipping their product to people who don't want it, I think they'd get a substantial bonus. 

Regarding your response to Tom: why should Tom have to unsubscribe or recycle something he never asked for in the first place? Do advertisers really want to spend money to reach someone who doesn't want to be reached? Of course not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I guess we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree about whether 15% is a large percentage or not. If a typical CEO could save 15% of their manufacturing and shipping costs by not shipping their product to people who don&#8217;t want it, I think they&#8217;d get a substantial bonus. </p>
<p>Regarding your response to Tom: why should Tom have to unsubscribe or recycle something he never asked for in the first place? Do advertisers really want to spend money to reach someone who doesn&#8217;t want to be reached? Of course not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by KenC</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>KenC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-190</guid>
		<description>Ed:  
The facts don't support your base assumption that a "large percentage of YP recipients don't use them".  

To your point on not wanting books, I believe all of the major publishers have said they will honor direct requests (but not from 3rd parties) to not deliver you a book if you don't want one.

Tom: 
Your comment that the "phone book business is in trouble" shows your ignorance of the industry dynamics.  Financial organizations are still interested in funding buyouts and expansions, millions of small businesses find these products invaluable to growing their business, and the industry employees some 50,000+ people.  Those are not the signs of an industry looking to squeeze anything.

To your other ranting -- it's a phone book.  Get over it.  If you don't want them, either contact the publisher in your area to request they not deliver them, or take all of maybe 30 seconds "every six months" to just put them in your recycling bin.  I would hope you have more important things in your life to worry about than the FREE Yellow Pages which arrive at your door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed:<br />
The facts don&#8217;t support your base assumption that a &#8220;large percentage of YP recipients don&#8217;t use them&#8221;.  </p>
<p>To your point on not wanting books, I believe all of the major publishers have said they will honor direct requests (but not from 3rd parties) to not deliver you a book if you don&#8217;t want one.</p>
<p>Tom:<br />
Your comment that the &#8220;phone book business is in trouble&#8221; shows your ignorance of the industry dynamics.  Financial organizations are still interested in funding buyouts and expansions, millions of small businesses find these products invaluable to growing their business, and the industry employees some 50,000+ people.  Those are not the signs of an industry looking to squeeze anything.</p>
<p>To your other ranting &#8212; it&#8217;s a phone book.  Get over it.  If you don&#8217;t want them, either contact the publisher in your area to request they not deliver them, or take all of maybe 30 seconds &#8220;every six months&#8221; to just put them in your recycling bin.  I would hope you have more important things in your life to worry about than the FREE Yellow Pages which arrive at your door.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How The &#8220;Truth&#8221; Can Be Skewed Any Which Way You Want by Tom</title>
		<link>http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/how-the-truth-can-be-skewed-any-which-way-you-want/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ypgreen.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-187</guid>
		<description>My water heater breaks, I go online and find someone to fix it. That's fine, we have different methods of getting the same information. I'm not going to say one is superior over the other, but, I don't drop two computer monitors on your doorstep every six months without your consent, do I?

Why should the burden of recycling multiple phone books from multiple phone book companies be placed on my doorstep, when I do not want it in the first place? 

Because you need to justify ad rates.

The phone book business is in trouble and its employing a slash and burn method until every last drop of revenue is squeezed from the lemon that is Yellow Pages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My water heater breaks, I go online and find someone to fix it. That&#8217;s fine, we have different methods of getting the same information. I&#8217;m not going to say one is superior over the other, but, I don&#8217;t drop two computer monitors on your doorstep every six months without your consent, do I?</p>
<p>Why should the burden of recycling multiple phone books from multiple phone book companies be placed on my doorstep, when I do not want it in the first place? </p>
<p>Because you need to justify ad rates.</p>
<p>The phone book business is in trouble and its employing a slash and burn method until every last drop of revenue is squeezed from the lemon that is Yellow Pages.</p>
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