CanPages Sets the Record Straight
To its credit, BCBusinessOnline.ca in a recent story became one of the few media sources to present the real facts on print Yellow Pages. As the article noted:
- But even in the Age of Google, it would appear, there’s still a market for the proverbial doorstop. Two independent U.S. studies confirm that approximately 70 per cent of the population uses print directories regularly to find local businesses.
- “The Internet is not the be all and end all of local searches,” proclaims Olivier Vincent, president and CEO of Burnaby-based Canpages Inc.,…….When the basement is full of water, he points out, you’re not going to boot up the computer; you probably won’t even find Joe the plumber online.
- “We hate waste just like everybody else,” Vincent declares. He points out that directory publishing supports the forest industry, which he says is the sole source of tree planting in B.C. He also notes an audit by Tree Canada that certified Canpages as carbon neutral by virtue of the thousands of trees it plants every year.
Now I know the print Yellow Pages haters will cringe at seeing this, as they refuse to acknowledge that directory publishers are indeed eco-friendly oriented in their business.
on May 8, 2009 on 3:00 pm
The canpages print directories are made with recycled and waste material they do not use paper made from newly cut trees. They use the mill waste that is traditionally burned and chipped wood from old furniture that is traditionally sent to the landfill.
Not only do they make it possible to plant more trees but they ensure their product is environmentally responsible.
Their new eco choices section gives home owners and business people valuable tips on how to conserve and save money.
on May 10, 2009 on 4:06 pm
The flooded basement scenario is probably the most overused justification for yellow pages. If that’s the reason for keeping a YP around the house, why not just look up some local plumber’s contact info online and store it in a dry place for use on that fateful day?
Carennedy, are we supposed to believe that the only thing mill waste can be used for is the production of phone books? How is it green to produce something that won’t be used by a significant portion of recipients?
on May 11, 2009 on 9:19 pm
It’s not only plumbers Eddie, it’s fixing a broken windshield, replacement windows, and 1000’s of other categories that you don’t use a regular basis that you need to find local information on. But if you saved all of those businesses you might need one day in print or digital fashion as you suggested, you would have — a Yellow Pages wouldn’t you. Now if you have a better way to respond to those life events, God bless you. But the vast majority of normal people are very happy using that print Yellow Papes….
On the mill waste, have you ever been to a wood mill Eddie? I have, and most of the old products use to go straight to a landfill in the past. The byproducts had very little commercial use or appeal, until paper mills figured a way to use those byproducts and some of the paper waste you recycle curbside (I hope you recycled Eddie) to make paper that could be printed on. But only after they have passed a slue of local, country and state environmental regulations first.
on May 12, 2009 on 3:44 pm
Ken, how people shop for impulse services (basement filling with water) and considered purchases (new windows) vary. I would imagine that people are more savvy when it comes to more considered purchases and want to gather more information than the Yellow Pages provide before contacting a prospective vendors.
I’ve never been to a wood mill, but I can use Google, which tells me that there are other uses for mill waste beyond creating phone books that may or may not be used. Since the vast majority of phone books end up in landfills anyway, using mill waste to create them wastes additional energy and time shifts landfill growth.
Ken, of course I recycle, but I try to think bigger than that. Why not prevent products that won’t be used from entering the waste cycle in the first place?
on May 13, 2009 on 5:33 pm
How do you know “products” or yellow pages in this case, won’t be used “in the first place”?? Does your “bigger” thinking mean you are clairvoyant enough to know whether a pipe will break, a windshield will get broken, or you might want that specialty piece of playroom equipment a couple of months from now?? If you know when each and everyone of these life events occur, maybe you could share the secret with all us.
I’m interested to hear that “wasting additional energy” which yields tens of thousands of jobs and provides millions of small businesses with a proven way for them to advertise and grow their business is a bad thing?? Wow Eddie, that’s a real positive suggestion.
Or is it really all just because of your crusade, you’ve never ever consider using a print directory, no matter the situation?
on May 19, 2009 on 2:31 pm
Ken, it sounds like you’re suggesting that people should accept phone books into their lives if they know what’s good for them. Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying, but it comes across as a daddy knows best, dated, argument.
I’m sure you realize that businesses gain nothing by advertising in books that aren’t opened. And those same businesses pay taxes that cover recycling and landfill costs, so every book delivered to someone who doesn’t use it is hurting local businesses.
The reality of the market is that businesses come and go. Print yellow pages manufacturing and distribution isn’t exactly a growth industry. I hope the people employed by the industry see the writing on the wall. It’s a shame that the industry that supports their livelihood is changing in ways they can’t control, but it’s simply not sustainable to create and deliver books to people who don’t use them. Jobs are maintained by creating value in the marketplace.
on May 14, 2009 on 3:48 am
Did you know that wood is a renewable resource and is a very important part of our economy. If it weren’t for wood houses would still be made of brick or sod. Old trees do not produce oxygen, in fact, at a certain point they start giving off more carbon dioxide then oxygen. Did you know that forest fires are natures way of house cleaning and ensuring new younger healthier trees provide the air with better oxygen. Since we stop forest fires nature cannot clean house. Did you know that the pine beetle in BC has devistated the forests and is killing the majority of the forests. The beetle is spreading quickly into AB and is making its way to Washington. It could have been stopped and the forests saved but the decision was made to let nature take her course and now the beetle has done more damage then any logging company. There is no industry left to plant trees and replenish the forests and the government can’t afford the huge expense to do this.
I am all for conservation, sustainable living, the environment, reducing, and recycling but there is more to the issue and their are jobs at stake too.
The paper industry and the logging industry work dilagently to replant trees and create a healthier eco system. They are innovators when it comes to ensuring healthy forests because without the forest there is no industry.
Google for some people makes sense for certain things that is why Canpages has the most innovative online directory in the virtual world. They also have some wonderful mobile options as well.
While I agree that if someone is sitting in front of their computer while its booted up they will search online. However, if their computer is shut off or on a different floor and their phone directory is by the phone (where most people put it) they will use the book everytime. No matter the age.
Many people find staring at a computer screen and trying to read the information on it tiresome and find the book easier. The book is there to provide options.
As for the waste products made into paper – yes there are some other options but not in way of printable paper. Compare the quality of paper used for a phone book to other paper items like the paper in your printer.
For those of us who grew up in the middle of the lumber industry and have seen the stacks burning and the mounds of sawdust outside waiting to be disposed of it is nice to see that there is a good commercial use for it. Without commercial innovation and use the waste would continue to go to the landfills and be burned.
How many business cards have gotten lost or thrown out? How many businesses go out of business, especially with the slow down in the economy?
The phone directory provides the consumer with an option that they use to find what they want when they want it. Most people are sick of advertising and have tuned out to most ads. That’s why phone directories are so important, they provide the consumer with a local search product when they need something. Let’s face it, no one reads a phone book for the fun of it.
Restaurants are the number one heading most commonly searched across the board. Other headings are physicians, dentists, chiropractors, schools, and associations. Print directories and online directories are a vital tool for many people who move and those looking for new services.
By the way – if you needed to call a computer repair company because your computer was frozen or something what would you use to find the number? Technology isn’t a hard copy, it breaks down, becomes obsolete, erases, and looses data on a regular basis.
I’m sorry but you are one voice of many different ones and the studies that Mr. Olivier Vincent mentions involve the voices of many. The knowledge network study found that when a consumer does a local search the print directory is still the favored medium by almost double.
on May 14, 2009 on 3:56 am
Restaurants are the number one heading most commonly searched across the board. Other headings are physicians, dentists, chiropractors, schools, and associations.
Sorry it’s late By Other headings I mean Other top 10 searched headings in print and online.
on May 19, 2009 on 2:37 pm
Carennedy, in the US, and I believe in Canada as well, the percentage of the population with a home phone line is dropping. If this is the case, the phone book next to the phone scenario is going to go away too.
Regarding the “what would you do if your computer was frozen” scenario, I’d use the browser on my phone to search for services, the browser on my iPod Touch, just go to one of the stores I’m already familiar with, or use Google’s free 411 service, in that order.
Restaurant listings are big business. Why do you think start-ups like Yelp and UrbanSpoon have done such a better job in that category than the incumbent yellow pages?
on May 23, 2009 on 5:21 am
Ken, I don’t think I could be more clear about where I stand on yellow pages. I fully support the manufacturing and delivery of the books to people who plan to use them. I just don’t understand why you think it’s valuable to advertisers, the environment, and taxpayers to create books that people don’t plan to use.
I’ve found that it’s not particularly difficult to explain to businesses how people search for their services or products online. Once they understand how people are using the web, how to advertise on the web becomes a pretty simple next step. But I can understand how someone in print would want to make it seem difficult.
I don’t know when my AC/heating system will break, but I’ve experienced both over the past 5 years in homes I’ve owned and somehow managed to return to a climate controlled environment without the help of a “daddy knows best” phone book on hand. I hopped online to compare vendors, and asked friends for recommendations. I didn’t freeze or melt without my yellow pages.
Ken, I’m sure the industry, while not expanding, continues to hire in some positions. However, it’s quite clear based on public data that industry revenues are down (comparing against the newspaper industry is saying that you’re better than absolutely horrible).
on May 25, 2009 on 2:09 am
If no one uses the phonebook then my clients have been lying to me because within weeks of the book being delivered they receive calls, booked work and have paid for their ad. Since they have chosen to renew their ads in the book and they are smart business people, I’d say the book works.
on May 26, 2009 on 5:33 am
Carennedy, why do you have to create strawman arguments rather than debating what I actually wrote? I never said that no one uses phone books. That’s clearly not the case. But it’s also pretty darn obvious that your clients paid for the printing, distribution, and disposal of a growing number of books that were never opened.
Wouldn’t businesses be better off paying for only ads in books that people plan to use?
on May 29, 2009 on 3:19 am
Let me ask you a question, how are the Phone Directory companies suppost to know who does and who doesn’t use the books? People move on a regular basis so who wanted a book last year and who doesn’t want a book next year changes regularly.
Canpages has an opt out program that a very small percentage of the population has chosen to register for. The distribution opt out list is by address so if there is a change in home ownership the new owners do not get a book. People get upset because they get a book, they get upset because they didn’t get a book. They grumble if they have to pick it up at a distribution site, no matter how convenient. My point is, a phone directory company is unable to ensure that only those who want the book get the book and those who don’t don’t.
Some who only use a cell phone still use a book – after all a cell phone is still a phone and they still need the information the phone book provides them. Even if they only use it once.
on June 29, 2009 on 4:16 pm
Guys, this is simple;
For older folks and the technologically challenged, the YP doorstop will be around for a while. Undeniably though, there is a demographic shift taking place. Younger folks are mobile an I’m pretty sure I haven’t seen too many kids lugging around their dog-eared YP with them. Online is the end game. As local and hyperlocal online offerings create easy tools for business owners to use to update their product/service offerings on a daily basis, who is going to bother to advertise in an archaic book when you can offer users deals up to the minute online.
…and for the record, dead trees are dead trees folks. That chunk of wood you drop on every doorstep is an environmental crime. Plant all the trees you want, I don’t know why we even use paper at all anymore.
on June 29, 2009 on 10:35 pm
Chris:
Are you so sure? I’ve written numerous times with examples of how “younger folks” when faced with one of those life-event items, will also turn to the printed books, which they never would have thought to use in the past, to find and quantify a local supplier. Agreed the Internet is a great place to “browse” for info, but that book is the easiest, quicker way to find that local business. Much to your chagrin, 25-34 years olds are heavy media users — all media, including the books which you loath. Read more: http://www.yptalk.com/archive.cfm?ID=396&CatID=4
Your dead tree comment also shows a lack of knowledge. I assume you’ve not seen this article: http://www.yptalk.com/archive.cfm?ID=390&CatID=3 which shows you how the industry’s paper is made — 60% of it comes from a tree already milled for lumber. Unless you are also swearing off lumber in your buildings/structures too?????
on June 30, 2009 on 12:14 am
Ken, it sounds like you’re suggesting that Meggabyte is 40% right on the environmental cost based on first-growth use. In order for the other 60% to be admirable, I’d like to hear a statement from the lumber industry saying that yellow pages are the ONLY use for mill waste. I’m having a really hard time believing that’s the case but am willing to hear what the industry has to say about that.
Of course, no matter how a book is manufactured, the majority end up in landfills and distribution has environmental costs as well.
And, any book sent to a residence that has no plans of using a book is a pure environmental disaster while taking money out of the pocket of local businesses who paid to reach YP users – not properteis with rotting phone books.
on July 3, 2009 on 12:37 am
Ken, my goal is simply to cut down on the wasteful manufacturing and distribution of unused products (waste) such as the percentage of phone books people no longer choose to use. I can’t imagine why anyone would be opposed to that unless they’re putting their financial interests ahead of common sense.
on July 6, 2009 on 5:02 pm
Then why aren’t you an advocate for other green efforts too, especially ones that are having a far greater negative impact than printed directories??? Or is that what your continuing fascination with hotel room toilet paper is all about??
on July 10, 2009 on 4:02 am
I’m not sure why I find the unsolicited delivery of wasteful print directories so fascinating. Maybe I have a thing for slow moving train wrecks where the conductors keep hyping their denial talking points? Not sure.
YP is not my only green cause. However, it’s proven to be one of the most difficult for me to solve. I receive nearly no mail at my home because direct mail advertisers are more than willing to stop mailing people who want off their lists because it makes perfect economic sense for them. In the YP industry, this seems to be broken because the industry wants to create the illusion of market saturation in order to sell ads to unsophisticatied local businesses based on that illusion. At least that’s my current theory.
On the TP scene, I spend a lot of room nights in hotels for work.
on May 22, 2009 on 2:35 pm
I love it Eddie when you try to be condescending in a cute way. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
“Daddy knows best, dated, argument” — you really need to get out from behind your keyboard and I don’t mean just jogging around town, like in talking with real people Eddie. The vast majority of people continue to use phone books, and I’ll spare you the actual stat since you don’t believe it anyway, because there is still a fundamental distrust of the Internet and the printed books provide a solid view of local businesses in headings that aren’t your every day product or service. They are also quicker to use than doing some Google thing. You may find it “dated” that someone like me and probably 75% of adults prefer to use both sources together for our buying decisions — the Internet is a wonderful “browsing” source, but the book is a better “buying” source.
“Businesses gain nothing advertising in books that aren’t opened” — that’s such a dumb statement Eddie. You need to do better. They also gain nothing by buying some online package in which they may never be found either. That is the number one complaint from small businesses that are on the Web — “how come I can’t find my ad?”. But you won’t know if you’re not in both the print or online worlds will you?? Can you tell me when your AC/heating system is going to break?? Maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe not for 3 more years. But when it does, where do you find those local vendors? They will definitely be in the Yellow Pages that you have waiting to help you.
Your last paragraph is so totally naive it’s sad. We’re just as busy recruiting for the Yellow Page industry as we are for online companies. Except that I don’t get calls from candidates who took a job at an online company 9 months ago who are now again looking for work because whatever.com just went out of business. Doesn’t happen like that from the YP companies. Seems to me the YP industry folks are the ones creating “value” in the marketplace. If they weren’t, their revenues would be down 25+% like the newspaper industry. But you wouldn’t have a clue about that would you never look at a book, do you??
on July 2, 2009 on 9:04 pm
Once again Eddie, you are skewing and spinning the numbers to support your rants. If I had mills or paper company people comment would that change your view? I really doubt it. So instead we will continue this dance.
Face it Eddie, living has environmental impacts. All of the technology gear that you are so in love with ends up in the landfills too and causes even bigger, more severe environmental impacts far outweighing that of phone books.
Perhaps that may be a better place for you to divert your energies and organize a better effort in that area. We’d all be a lot better for it. Just look in your phone book under “recycling” or in the government section which has additional information.